Mistral Declares War on OpenAI | MCA5

Welcome to the Morpheus Cyber Podcast. Today, Mistral declares war on open AI. French underdogs are taking on Silicon Valley's AI giants with open source weapons, while crypto gamblers are suddenly worth a billion a week. Grab your phone and vote in our live polls. AHA Slides.com slash MCA5. The French startup just threw down the gauntlet against open AI's closed empire with models anyone can download and modify. Crypto prediction markets hit one billion weekly. Turns out the internet's favorite gambling addiction might actually predict the future. Nuclear startup raises 96 million to power AI data centers because apparently Chagy PT needs its own personal reactor. Cloudflare blocked 400 billion AI bot requests. The web scraping wars are getting absolutely ridiculous. Vote along with us at aHA Slides.com slash MCA5. Let's dive in. This is your captain speaking. This is Tyler. We ask your best air seat votes. Please let us know. We need to know. We'll do the air take off. All right. Hey guys, here we are. It's recording day again. Jim, I know you're out in California. So you're on the road. Yes. You're in the home office there. And I'm in my home office. Good on y'all. It's been an interesting week as we look out on the news front. And one of the things that's obviously we're always covering our five topics AI crypto quantum robotics. And so we're looking at all these topics all the time and finding the greatest news and the most interesting things. But on techfeaturesindex.com, we publish obviously the statistics about that. And we'll publish some of those for you. And we might talk about them a little bit. But the issue that's before us this week is open AI is treging ahead. No holds barred. They are moving forward. Just praise the Lord and pass the ammunition type style. But I saw that and we talked a little bit about minister last week in our last episode. We were talking about this circular investment ecosystem that was going on, which they are very much a part of. And I thought, oh, I saw that come up in the news again or in the out there article about menstrual and that. So now I see why they're connected to this whole ecosystem because they're doing something completely different than anybody else. And those founders originally from Google deep-minded meta, right? So they came out and went to menstrual and came up with this new concept of open weight system, an open weight system that anyone can use. We were I was thinking, is that valuable? Yeah, I guess it is because companies want to wait how they get the results from an AI response. They want to fine tune it to their company, their organization. They don't want the wrong answers weighted in someone else's value system. They want their value systems. Oh, that's cool. Now the name of this organization reminds me of a menstrual cycle. So I don't know what these guys in France are doing with the name of this. I thought a menstrual was the first in place. A singer. Yeah, a menstrual show. I know. I'm just kidding. I just thought I'd laugh a little bit. Anyhow, this, that, that menstrual is only 18 months old. Yeah. And they're challenging AI. They're challenging all the big wigs at a year and a half in. That's all they are. And of course, what do you make of the fact that they are part of that investment cycle? What's your take on that? They're going to be a big AI provider. So they're incestuous with Nvidia because they need Nvidia's help, right? They need the processing power. So that's been video is investing in them because they go, yeah, the more we have out there, the better. So for, look at it from Nvidia standpoint, if I can get all these big AI companies out there, cloud AI companies out there, they're going to need more compute. Yeah, sure. I'm going to give you some do succeed. Do well because you're going to need more compute power. So it's, that's what I mean. And then menstrual again puts money into other companies as well and trying to get them to invest in them, other cloud companies that will host their application. That kind of thing is going on constantly. So if you look at our last episode, I encourage anybody to go back and look at our last episode to understand exactly just how all of these companies are feeding into each other. And just basically propping up their financials. So it's a win-win for all of those guys. So I can't say anything negative necessarily about it as long as it all just keeps flowing. That's the big issue. Last week we talked about, boy, I hope that ecosystem just keeps flowing that nobody defaults anywhere. Nobody falls apart because they're all dependent on each other. Yeah, that's what they call a bubble. But let's talk about menstrual and what they're offering people. It is a European offering and it's one of the things that they're doing to compete. But think about it. Open AI is a closed waiting factor system. Whereas this is an open waiting factor and you can download the entire menstrual open-weighted system and use it and get essentially equivalence to open AI for. Now the difference is that you don't have to pay anything for it. So open AI is a closed and you can only access it through a paid API. Whereas this, you can download the whole thing. Now you still have to have it on a robust platform, right? A server platform to put it to work. So that's something that we obviously need to understand that's part and parcel to the whole thing. But think about it. There are people who don't need to rent this and you think about a Fortune 500 company who has AI. Do you want, and you've got 10,000 employees, you're going to pay a 10,000 employee license usage on the open AI system, the API key. And you're going to pay for that every single month. Whereas if you can just download this whole menstrual system, put it onto one of your server, you still have to have server environments and then host it yourself, which is a lot of work. And matter of fact, well, and updates. You've got to keep the thing updated and there's a lot of inconvenience with that. So posting, which is exactly why menstrual also has an API offering in case you don't want to host it yourself and spend all that money and updating. They have a lower cost API that you can get access to just like open AI or cloud or rock or what have you. So it's it's once again, the whole issue of keeping your proprietary methods. Local to yourself. In other words, you download their weights, you put it into your own system onsite in your own infrastructure and you modify it yourself. Nobody else offers that. That's the big selling thing. It's not even necessarily cost. You can't do this with anybody else. They're the first ones that say, we're going to let you decide how you want to wait the answers that come out of AI. So that's there are there are Jim Lama and some Facebook models. They're just not very robust. Yeah. That's what I mean. They're competing against GPT 4 and cloud. Those are the, that's specifically who they are competing against. And those two other AI systems don't offer this capability. They don't let you go in and toy around and adjust the metrics. You know, how I want it to be more weighted this direction. That's what open waiting is. It just means that you decide how to wait the system. That's all this means. And no one else says you can do that. We don't let you like for instance, you get the result that GPT 4 decides is the best wait for in general for the public. And we're now in the organization to say, I don't like that. I don't like the way that you wait things. We're going to wait it differently. And so that's why menstrual is now allowing you to customize that and do that. So I think it's, I think they're going to get some traction pretty quick. You know, open it. Exactly. It also runs on your own infrastructure. Yeah, that's, that's definitely a plus and you're saving a bunch of dough. That's convenient. But open AI does offer an open weighted option as well. We just have to pay for it. Yep. Yeah, yeah, you have to pay for it. Because some of the convenience, so I wonder if that might be a hybrid model that might be popular. Definitely all the above. I think people are going to look at various things. And I think they're going to look at these options for various markets and various topics, right? Because they're, we're going to have a eyes in the future that are going to be super powerful on the nano level. It's going to know everything about this and it's going to have great granularity. But it's not going to cover everything. For instance, Claude doesn't have some text to speech capabilities. Maybe never will. Why? Because they're over in the corporate market and they're doing different things. So every one of these different models has areas that they specialize in. And when you go to train these models, it takes weeks and weeks or months and it's tens of millions of dollars for each one of these model buildouts. And then you have to figure out how to monetize that model once you have it. So menstrual is building their own models. They allow you to download them and wait them yourselves. But I'm not so certain the jury is still out about how many people are going to want to do that. But it. Well, we also talked last week about Amazon releasing their AI factory. Basically AI in a box. I just watched for this, that is kind of coupling together of menstrual and Amazon offering this AI factory because menstrual claims they can run on an internal box. It has eight with eight GPUs. That's what they require. A GPUs already that Amazon is going to offer that exact box. Here's your AI box. Run your menstrual on it. Here you go. So there's a partnership immediately. So I would see that coming very soon. Yeah. Good point. I think it's just a matter of I don't know if that if really menstrual is quite as good earth, they'll continue to be as good or if they will pass up cursor and chat. But it's just a matter of whether enterprises are going to be choosing convenience and so yeah, sure. I'm sure menstrual does a great job. It ain't broken. I like what chat GPT has to offer and you know, it's convenient, although it's expensive. Let's go back in time and just look at how the markets have changed. We had windows, right? And the servers were going out there and were very expensive. You had to pay for every server and they got very expensive SQL server and everything else through Microsoft. And then there was Linux and Linux took over all of this software and it was essentially if you don't think about the cost of support, the software's essentially no charge, but you have to support it yourself. Well, the thing is that where has all of that gone? There's still some Windows servers out there, right? But they're nowhere near what they are. Most everything now runs on a Linux platform. There's no fees associated with it. So menstrual is kind of like the same thing as the transformative process of using Linux distributions. That's a great analogy. Absolutely. That is good. Yeah. And they already claim that they can match GPT for performance on key benchmarks. So they're saying we're just as fast on as GPT for and they support 80 programming language. So they're up against clogged. 80 languages that they already support. So you can ask it to do the same kind of programming that you're asking for in clot and probably at a very par level. That's interesting. And so we'll be keeping track of that over time and revisiting that as we go. Yes. So maybe it menstruals the new Linux. You heard it first folks. You heard it here first. Yeah. It's funny how these names keep popping up every week. So yeah, we'll probably discuss more about that stroll in the future. So now I have to say what if we went out to one of the crypto prediction markets and essentially put our money on whether menstrual or open AI or GROC or cloud, which one's going to do better. I bet it's in there. Bet you it's in there. Yeah. Exactly. And so that brings us to the next topic, right? You can pretty much bet on almost anything. Matter of fact, sports players have learned that they can bet on their individual statistics. And then they can basically take a dive and not achieve those statistics and tell their friends about it. So everybody makes some money. But these crypto prediction markets are like polymarket and there's another one that just came out. It's KAL, S H I. They've actually been around for a long time. These these prediction markets. The difference here is the crypto. The fact is that you USDC coin, US dollar coin. Yeah, CFTC. Yes. Yes. And that changes the game because they used to be limited by banking regulations. And now it's wide open. Yeah. There was a guy who made $85 million. Yeah, so that. And then he was on the presidential election. Wow. And you can make a bet on Taylor Swift's next album. And it's just it doesn't matter if it's something that's in the public's purview and you have someone else who might bet on it. There's two sides out there. And now how do these companies make money? They are not taking the opposite side of your bet. That's not how these work. Thank you. No, they are not participating as the house. They get a small percentage for transactional fees. So it's basically if I bet against you, Jim, you bet against me, the people who bet for or again, the money comes from the people who are willing to place the opposite bet, not the house, which is an interesting betting situation, right? I'm not much of a gambler. So this subject, I know it's not going to go away and it's going to be there and be part of our society forever probably. There's always been this people betting on the outcome of things, but here's my concern. And when I read this, I said, one thing I don't like about this, they're just not predicting outcomes, this market that they've created doesn't just predict outcomes, but more than likely they're going to start shaping incentives around the outcomes. In other words, we've already seen it. We've already seen basketball players rejecting themselves out of games before because there was some bet or number about how many quarters or that they were going to be a part of whatever. It's just there's incentive now to change the outcome. And every one of these things that they're taking any type of wager on. It's not the same thing, Jim. And none of those results are good. Like I even thought about political election. Then you get some wing nut out there that's got $10 million bet against Trump. And guess what he's going to want to do? Well, for sure. We don't even mention that, but yeah, we can put that together. Yeah, that's what I mean. It's just, I don't think it's a good thing. Gamling's never been a great thing, but makes people rich. And some people think it's just fun like a game, right? I got surplus money. It doesn't matter if it makes money. Hey, fun. It's entertainment by the hour. And you limit your stake by the hour. And you say, if I go to Las Vegas and I'm going to play, I have a very small stake. And I can continue playing because the table's returns statistically is 99.5. Exactly. You just made my point. Yeah, but you only are these are people who are just thinking very narrowly around this little scope. Now you're looking at this platform being able to allow you to wager on things that affect the world, the economy, everything. And now it doesn't just your decision to bet doesn't just affect you. It affects many others that are now thinking, how can I win on this and things that we don't we don't want to talk about. Yeah, like the Indian of the Ukraine and the Russia war. I bet you can go bad on it. I think what's interesting is that it is taking off. Look at how it's took off. I'm surprised by that because we've had online gambling. I could be playing Blackjack right now. What's the difference? The difference is that flipping a coin for money is boring, but betting on a political election, that's intriguing. So I think or a ball game or it's where your interest are right where your interest are. They've now they've created a broader open air avenue for people to bet on the things they care about. Right. Rather than just sports or Blackjack. Yeah, so I get it. That's why it's going to stay. I'm not going to go away. So not only do we have CalShi and polymarket, right? Those are the two that they're they just got to CalShi just got approval for political betting, but Robinhood just acquired this company called BitStamp for 200 million with prediction market plans. It looks like all of these trading platforms. Now Robinhood is a little bit more risque, so to speak, as opposed to Schwab or one of those. But yeah, but this is proving that things are moving from the franished to mainstream. Yes, definitely what we thought may not really be players in the market, all of a sudden are like Pizzy Candy. Yeah, I saw the CEO of Robinhood at the all-in summit last year. Oh, did you? Yeah, they're not French anymore. Robinhood. No, but they're non-French, but they are buying in with their acquisition. They're buying into the market prediction market. Yeah, by buying. You know what's interesting about that is that polymarket is not available in the US, right? Yeah, regulations shut down. That's not available. How do I know that? I went on and tried and I looked at it and I tried to see how does this work? How do you make a bet? That's how I found out that they use that stablecoin, which is very interesting, but in the US, but wonder for Robinhood. I'm going to draw try bet because I was just looking at the Robinhood interface and it does have, you got your stocks and it's got all that. And then it has not as many choices as Polymarket, but it does have sporting events and some other things that you can, I want to say bet, invest on one side perhaps and I wonder if you can do it from the US. Yeah, you got to be on that, but my understanding is this is another thing that we'll keep track of and continue communicating about as time goes by, but there is a billion dollars a week in bets in these markets. Yeah, that's not, that's not a change. Yeah, I fear about the long term social impact, what's every major decision now is preceded by some betting lying somewhere, right? Oh, is everybody looks to the odds? What is the betting odds look like? We should know that direction is no, no, it's backwards. But that's the new poll. That's why they gained popularity on the last election. That's when they blew up under 2024, but they were more accurate than all the pollsters. Because the people who are making the predictions are making the predictions and putting their money where their mouth is. You know, because if you really think Trump's going to win, but you've got a pollster in front of you going, who are you going to vote for? And maybe you're embarrassed to say Trump, but in the privacy of your own home, you'll bet on him. Do you got it? Yeah, I guess so. Yeah. I'm going to say it is good, Jim. Jim, I agree with you. I think there's something sort of evil in the whole thing and something's not so cool about it, but I'm intrigued. I wish I could do it. What about a VPN? I'll guess you technical guys. Can I set up a VPN and log back in or maybe still know it's from the US? No, you could try a VPN. An anonymous VPN? Sure. Oh, I'm going to be hooked, Jim. Don't do it. Now you spoke about it. So the SEC is going to be watching your VPN channels. And the big rewards that you get from that betting, they have to go into your Swiss bank account. Yeah, probably perfectly legal if it goes into your Swiss bank account, it just came back to the United States. May or may not be because there's a way to do that. Yeah. So what do you guys think about the fact that 25% of the people on Palin Market come from one country? France. Not the biggest 25% of the gamblers are from France. Maybe they were. It's just weird, isn't it? Yeah, by the way, I had no idea that was in France. Just in case people don't catch that part. So now let's do some betting on these nuclear micro reactors that we've got now. But I have, wait, Bill, you're the master of segway. That was pretty good. Yeah. I mean, I love this thing about nuclear reactors. Many, many look nuclear. Being a Navy man, there are nuclear actors and there have been nuclear reactors on submarines since very early on. We've never had a major problem or meltdown with any of those. Maybe you know that new that aircraft carriers are also powered by nuclear reactors. Yeah, it's a good point. Oh, yeah, it's big and we could not operate those things. A lot of stuff on a ship is operated with steam, but that steam is being generated with the heat from a nuclear reactor. And we've done pretty good and those are pretty small spaces. This isn't like somebody who lives 100 miles away from three mile island. This is where your bunk is next to the bulkhead with a nuclear reactor on that Navy submarine. Right. So these are things if something goes wrong, they're all pretty much radioactive. Nuclear power, the science of it, all this change considerably. It's much, much safer than it was to say even 10 years ago or 20 years ago. It's very safe in a way that they handle it. The big problem and the one that no one can seem to solve is the fact that they're targets for terrorists because if you can blow up a nuclear plant and get some nuclear fallout from it in some way and really hurt the people that are in close proximity. Yeah, that's the big threat for everyone. And so if I like the idea of these many, it's like a dirty bomb. Yeah, if you do that, right? It becomes smaller. You can only affect a smaller area and they're easier to contain too if they're smaller. They can item down in a concrete bunker somewhere or something like that. But, man, those are the challenges. How does, because really we should be on nuclear power. It's clean, it's safe. It's good quality power. And fond of messed that up for us. Yeah. We do have a storage problem, right? We have to store it after we use it. But there's a lot of thought of sending it to space and letting it, sending it to another planet like Mercury or Venus. Yeah, put it on a ship to burn it. It's just going to burn up in their atmosphere. We don't want to send it to Mars because we're looking at heading there. But people need to understand that these small nuclear reactors are not the equivalent of a nuclear bomb because, yeah, it's a completely different sort of purpose. And ever, like you said, Jim, if somebody blows up a nuclear facility, it becomes what we call a dirty bomb because the nuclear reactor has nuclear materials and it diffuses into the atmosphere. But it is not the power of a nuclear weapon. And people, I'm not sure really realize that. Even people listening to this podcast might not recognize that. Yeah. And to be fair, nuclear power isn't the only choices out there. We're talking about Jay because it's in the news that $96 million investment. And I think it's good. I think we need to find out how factory built micro nuclear power can be distributed very quickly, shipped around the country. That'd be cool. But there's safe other safe forms of power that I was talking about. Molten salt reactors. They are cool and they create power. They're totally safe. We're talking about salty water basically. And then there's these small modular reactors out there. They're bigger than micro reactors, but they can be either way everybody. Josh is Jim Sun. Yeah, he's like a super nerd super smart guy. I think his IQ is like 160. So anyway, he reads everything knows everything and maybe we'll get him on here when I get I guess he got that IQ from his mom, huh Jim? Yeah. And then he says, I think he's like, I'm not sure if he's going to get that IQ from the other half of me, the other half of me, the other half of me, the other half of me, the other half of me, the other half of me, the other half of me. The latent part because they say that we are not using all of our brains. So when we have our children, sometimes they get to use a bigger percentage of it than we do. You may be. I said my wife has more common sense than I do. We can go into long stories, but I don't know. Bill knows my background. I used to. Why is that why we're still sub billionaires? About a car before I had a driver's license, hot riding it put more money into it. I think I had back in the day, you could buy cars pretty cheap, but with 64 and over, I got about 3,500 bucks into it, my $4,000, I sold it for $800. But Jim, remember that doesn't count the hours of work. Oh, you put the hours of work in there. Hot riding. Hot riding was one of my downfalls in life, but I still kind of love it. I just don't want to go back to it. Hey, yeah, hydrogen cells, hydrogen fuel cells, that's another thing that might be the future for power too. So in any hybrid type of combination of any of those things could be a good thing. But man, we are overdue to get into that world and get away from the current methods of creating power for this is for our society for the world. The other thing is the cost. When you build a nuclear facility, number one, you have to have cooling, right? So there has to be a source for cooling. And when you build a large nuclear reactor, we're talking very large, like one of these three mile island type things, what happens is they have to build them on site. And when they build them on site, they're all custom. They're all extremely expensive because they're custom. No two, they may use the same basic design principles. When they lay the crown crate, when they do all these different things, they're always different, which means the maintenance on them is different, which means the calculus of when they're dangerous and when they're melting down is different. What we're talking about here is factory built completely self contained on a shipping container, right? A nuclear reactor that is cookie cutter, completely all identical. How much did it say that would produce? Did you remember? I don't know. It was like three years, something like that. Yeah, three to five or something megawatts. That's an immense amount of power. Yeah. Go ahead. Sorry. But instead of taking 10 to 15 years to build one of these big ones, it's one or two years to get this one deployed. But I want to circle back to what Bill was talking about because I wasn't thinking about the nuclear reactors that are already on these military ships and submarines and stuff. And then Jim's point about the terrorism. So we haven't seen that yet because it's not so easy to attack a frigate or a destroyer, right? But what about when it's on just a pedestrian ship or all the other use cases that they have? If that could be number one, it's their smaller. The diffusion, the diffusion amount. And but when you want to go power a data center, you probably need three of these, right? Because you need to have the one that's not working, the two that are. I'm sure. The standby, right? Yeah. Yeah. What about rainy? It's like clustering. You need three of everything in order to run up. Yeah. The cluster. Yeah. What about uranium? Is there enough? Is that scarcity? That's needed for all these things, right? If it's going to, if it's going to be a standard on all these different use cases that they're talking about, ships and so forth, I don't think we have a problem maybe with mining it to some degree, but I don't think there's a shortage for the amount that is needed to run these nuclear reactors. Yeah. Yeah, John. It'd be great to have talked about. I could ask my buddy who's the, who's over at Oak Ridge National Labs. I could send a message to the last minute. So what about with some of these data center deployments, were they're talking about that, would they have multiples? Is it going to be three of these or just just a small contained, maybe there's a one I talk about three of them, I think a wide version. Yeah. When I talk about three of them, it's high availability redundancy. And if you run a cluster in Proxmox or whatever, they call for three of them, because just being redundant is only part of the equation, because you usually have something down for maintenance or upgrade. So then you have the other two and you want an active type standby capability. When you get down to where you're on that last, the third and only one, it's like life and death is right there, right, between on or off. So they want you to have three. And that's, and I don't know, these guys are going to have three. It's a cost situation and it's the criticality of the operation. But if you're running a data center, how many batteries do you have? If you don't have three nuclear reactors where they're in standby type of thing, you're going to have to have a bunch of batteries to take over for X amount of time, the data center. So that's all the various equations that they're going to have to put into. But the DOE is moving on and they're sending out lots of money for this. Not only are they getting an A series like Interested, but the DOE is sending out a lot of money to build and research these different things for safe nuclear reactors. Yeah, I just looked up what's the output, average output of a micro nuclear power plant. It's 20 megawatts. That's pretty big. Did you know that since the 50s, MIT University has had their own nuclear reactor? Right there, Cambridge. So you never hear about it. It's never melted down. It had some of the national labs too. I know I know who national lab has a very small one, 1.5 megawatt. Yeah. So anyway, we're looking at being able to provide the power that we need for AI through these nuclear, small nuclear reactors. And if we can have that, then that means that you can have cities who buy their own nuclear reactor and power things up themselves. And I think that's going to happen. I just looked up to what do they anticipate? AI data centers are going to need. And they said they will need 100 megawatts. Is that right? Anyhow, 20 megawatts? I think it's in it. 100 megawatts. Forget it. What I did look up is how many homes will 20 megawatts handle? Oh, I got it. Here it is. How many homes will 20 megawatts handle? And it'll handle anywhere between 2016,000 homes. And AI data center uses the equivalent power of 100,000 homes. So you can figure all that out from there. I'm not going to try to go down that road right now, but that's an immense amount of power. If 20 megawatts, it's best to handle 16,000 homes in a data center. But AI data center handle needs 100,000 to 100,000 homes. Math is it? Yeah. Yeah. Now, on the scarcity of uranium, I don't think that it's mining. It's a problem. But there are only five facilities worldwide that can produce the specialized uranium fuel that reactors need. And they bet? Oh, that's the problem. It's the processing side of things. I got you. Yeah. I don't know where they are, but there's only five worldwide. That's true about all these things like lithium, too. There's only a few places right now that do that. So we used to be the primary lithium provider of the world. That we were the original for. But we decided in our eco, whatever you want to call it, our environmental protection type of thing, is that it was too damaging to the environment. So we didn't want, we don't want to shove it off to third world countries. It doesn't say a lot about our ethics. Yeah. All those third world countries are essentially going to pollute the world to where we can't even live in it. Now we're going to have to come back and do it ourselves because it'll send it off to third world countries and other countries that are enemies. And now we don't have control of it anymore. Now they're saying, oh, we've got to take it back here. We originated the ability to do it. And we gave everyone else the knowledge to do it. And now we have to bring it back again. So if you should have just kept it in the first place and figured out how to clean up your act. Yeah, there you go. There you go. Guys from nuclear reactors to the AI bot requests. 416 billion AI bot requests have been suppressed through Cloudflare. Cloudflare powers about somewhere around 20% of all websites and web traffic and all of our stuff is on Cloudflare. All of our websites are behind Cloudflare. Cloudflare has some fantastic capabilities to help you defend against things like DDoS, distributed denial of service attacks. And so Cloudflare is part of the infrastructure that's essential for, in my opinion, all of our stuff that we do is behind Cloudflare. And they protect. So every time a packet comes in to our website or any of our apps, it goes to a Cloudflare IP address. And then Cloudflare takes it and takes a look at it, doesn't inspection on it. And then sends it on to the original website. For instance, just so people understand, when you have Cloudflare fronting your web server, nobody knows your real web servers IP address. You should make sure you turn that part of the DNS off if you ever brought it up live with a native IP address directly to the server. You make sure you got that turned off because that defeats the purpose of having Cloudflare because Cloudflare insulates you. So if Cloudflare is in the middle of my two hands here, on one side, you have all the users coming in. And there is an IP addresses that are Cloudflare IP addresses. And if you do a DNS lookup, and that's why Cloudflare does all the DNS lookups for you. So if Cloudflare is doing all your DNS lookups, it is giving you the IP address of one of the tens of thousands or millions of IP addresses that Cloudflare has to front your address. And that forces any hackers traffic or denial of service traffic to go through Cloudflare. Now over on this side, when you're going to your original server is protected from the internet because only Cloudflare can touch your original server. So your request comes in on basically anybody can use the IP addresses of Cloudflare on the protected side. It comes over and goes through a proxy. And on the other side, it goes to your server, your original server. But there's a couple of things that you have to do to that original server. Number one, you don't want to have a DNS address on that original server. Why? Because you don't want people to be able to go around Cloudflare to basically corrupt your server. So the other thing is that on that server, you should have, if you don't, have a certificate. And that certificate allows only Cloudflare to get to that original server. Period. So in other words, even if somebody did have the IP address of the original server without submitting that certificate to it when you try to connect to it, you could not connect to it. So it's a Cloudflare only access. So you create your server as your original server that's out on an original IP address that's unknown to your DNS, but is known to Cloudflare. So Cloudflare proxies all that, cleans everything up, and it's got these capabilities on the inside that you go in and configure your Cloudflare. And it says, hey, do fight all these bots, fight all these AI bots. And if you turn that feature on or off, then the bots can come through Cloudflare. So everything goes through Cloudflare and you can allow or deny and Cloudflare has a whole portfolio of services that it offers. And believe it or not, most of all those services are free. You can use Cloudflare for free. The other neat thing is that when you go through a Cloudflare environment, remember I showed you that Cloudflare, you got the IP address comes in and then it proxies and then it goes out. Things like the native TCP IP is maybe over here on your original server because you don't have a billion dollar infrastructure. But Cloudflare does. So you can serve up, for instance, the QUIC or quick protocol because Cloudflare proxies that and the requests coming in are the brand new quick protocol, which is billions of dollars of protocol engineering and very fast and very powerful capabilities. Cloudflare then proxies that over to your system that's running on an old desktop sitting under your desk. And then Cloudflare will accelerate your entire system. Matter of fact, one of the other benefits of Cloudflare is that if your web server completely goes down, it has a feature you can go turn it on. And it will keep your website going for anything that's not changing, right? Like ad hoc. You pay for like a black box, like a break the glass. Paper. It's a static server. It will serve the whole thing. And even if it can't reach the original IP address in the original server. So that platform is pretty cool. And you've been using Cloudflare for what, eight, nine years, ten years maybe a long time year. So you're probably better than almost anybody. And I love it too. And you've told me all the time about, hey, look what this can do. And now it's fixing that and stopping all this bad stuff from hitting our website. Those are all cool. So I'm going to bring a different perspective though, just a little bit different. Because I love Cloudflare too. I think you need to all have it just exactly like Bill says. And the cost is not really significant at all. But if you're not doing it, then you're just open up to risk and all kinds of things that go on. However, now we think about Cloudflare because of what that capability is, they're running some very sophisticated algorithms and dropping traffic that they feel is just should never hit your website. Should never be bombarding your website. So they've now become the gatekeepers of knowledge flow. Right? So they're saying, oh, you can talk to this, but you can't talk to this. And now they become the gatekeepers. So that's not bad if they're only getting rid of stuff you don't want. But if they're getting rid of stuff that you did want, then that becomes. Then you have to go through and it's very sophisticated and I have a bunch of those uses. But I'm going to go back and tie it into the menstrual thing. Okay. Back to menstrual. menstrual allows you to do open waiting. It would be very good if Cloudflare was doing open waiting as well that says, you're dumping a lot of traffic that I don't really want. I want to wait this. And you're not dumping enough of the stuff I don't ever want to have come. But Jim, you can do, you can set all those parameters on Cloudflare. You can turn off and turn it on. They have WAF. They have workers. They have all sorts of stuff. So if they are cutting something off, you go into Cloudflare, you go into the logs and the first thing you do is you start troubleshooting and saying, this app isn't working. What's wrong? When you go into the logs and they'll say, oh, Cloudflare do this certain feature or function or that it doesn't think you want to have available, it will turn out off. Is that like a firewall? It's firewall. It's not a waiting system. Yeah, that's waiting is different than setting firewalls. Right. So if you say, hey, you cut off this URL, I don't want that. I'm going to enable it. That's different than saying. Yes. So the waiting of the type of information I want coming through and essentially you can set that up. It's a different sort of a waiting thing. But essentially, Jim, you can change all those features and functions. You can turn it all off if you want to, but it's not very smart to do so. That's why you come in. And for instance, I have some apps where I post directly to LinkedIn, some of our materials. I do lookups and certain AI systems like we do. And then if the app doesn't work for some reason, I go into Cloudflare and it's, oh, it's filtering that. So for instance, there's these webhooks. So a webhook is, for instance, when this meeting stops recording and when this meeting has been processed by Zoom, at the end of that, it's going to, Zoom is going to come over and it's, I have a Zoom dot something or other that basically notifies me and it's called a webhook and it tells me, hey, I'm done recording and the recording is available. And then I have my application automatically go pull those Zoom files immediately. So that they are on our systems. So they're not somewhere else. So webhooks require you to have your own DNS host that they are going to inquire of and those are stopped by Cloudflare. And I have to go and say, we can allow this as long as it's coming from a known Cloudflare IP address. You see the difference? So it's still secure. It's coming from a Zoom IP address, right? And so you can qualify within Cloudflare where you can accept webhooks from and those are the sort of things that are very sophisticated and it's taken me a lot of time, even though I'm a packet guy, right? It's still very sophisticated to troubleshoot these sort of things and to figure out where the problems are. Yeah. Yeah, so built so built. So the subject is that they're blocking all these bots. And so why would you want to block the bots? I can think of a couple of reasons myself. One would be that now, gone it, you're feeding these AI development models, all this information, they're getting rich and you're not. So maybe one turned off and then say, hey, you want my information, maybe you got to pay. Is another reason? Exactly. Is there another reason though that starts overwork in my servers responding to billions of requests that why do I care about that? Yeah. So all of the AI models are basically bot requests that are sucking up all the information around the world. Word, WordPress just went and by default turned off the allowance of all of these AI bots from accessing WordPress. Wordpress is a huge percentage of all the public websites that are out there. Now that's turned off by default. So these these bot requests that are basically sucking up all of the information that's available on the internet in order to put it into the training for these AI models, which they then publish and then they charge you for right. Owners are saying, hey, maybe my website is more valuable than just getting some Google clicks on it. Maybe it's worth more money than what I'm getting from and if people do that, I don't ever do that with my systems. But yeah, you can turn it off so that they can't use your information to build the next layer of AI. Now why would I would not want to do that? Because my information is so rich and so valuable and so wonderful that I would want the AI systems to have my information so that it can make me more famous. Because that is a big part and that's another potential element, right? People are seeding to get themselves into the AI because if you haven't figured out, if you go in and say, hey, I'm in the market for XYZ, ABC, DEF, the AI system and you can say, which is better? This one or this one and it'll compare them. And then it's where's the website that I can go buy that from? Boom, Chakalaka. You don't think that's competing with Google and they may not be charging for that quite yet, but that is coming. Yeah, so that's the reason for allowing some bots and there is good reason. And here's Cloudflare making all the decisions who gets through who doesn't. Content providers like us even, hey, we don't want you to block him. We want to get our name out there. That's a little different. Originally, the whole thing bots bad. That's what IT botts bad. We don't want them hitting our servers why? Because that scraping traffic that basically overstresses your servers number one. Number two, it creates a certain amount of noise. It's like all this traffic trying to get to your server. It's not real, which makes it really hard to find out whether these are bad guys or good guys doing it. So from a security perspective, I'm a CIS SPI. I want to look at things in a security world so I say, it's hard to pick out the bad guys in this. Maybe a lot of them are bad guys. Maybe some of this is, but it really increases the attack surface dramatically for a defender. An IT security defender trying to figure out what traffic should be dropping. So cloud flares doing that for you. And along with it, it may be dropping some good traffic, too. That thing will be saying, hey, you got a content provider saying, look, I spent a lot of hours in here. I do want this my name to get out there. Go ahead and let it scrape everything off of my site so that I get some notoriety. The other thing is a Google bot is a crawler bot, which is the basis of the Google bot. The Google index. Sure. If you're not in the Google index, guess what? Nobody knows that you exist. Yeah. Anyhow, that's good. Yeah, we do cloud flares. Don't ever think that at the opposite. They're a great company. Yep. You guys aren't making money on this, are you? No, not unfortunately not. I should be because I'm technically. I understand a lot of the solutions. I'm going to be buying a little bit of the cloud for the flare, the front flare stack. I like cloud flares. I feel like it's essential. Are they public? They are public. But on the other hand, they front most of the websites that anything HTTP, anything web goes through cloud flares. For instance, if you SSH to a server, it doesn't go through cloud flares. Any web traffic goes through cloud flare. So that's what the end address is. What do you mean? How do you know what the source, the destination address is? Because you put your original IP address of your server into cloud flare. Oh, you're on that. Yeah. And then there's then cloud flare does your DNS. So if you go to Morpheus cyber.com, it's going to show you an IP address. A public IP address. Anyone can go there. But by God is going through cloud flare. And we're protected behind the cloud flare proxy. And then the side that where the Morpheus cyber.com site is over here. And it has a certificate. So you can't go directly find all the holes. So if there's any holes in anything, if you're in front of cloud flare and a brand new hole shows up somewhere that's web based, they're going to close it. It's great software. And I feel like it's, it's a very technical solution. It's a very powerful solution. It's taken me a half a dozen years to understand how it works. And I'm still learning new elements of it because it's a very sophisticated. It has, for instance, cloud flare in addition, they have streaming capability. So you can put all of your instead of hosting all of your stuff on Vimeo or YouTube or whatever, you can host your videos directly on the cloud flare infrastructure. So we can take our URLs for that and put them directly those files and put them on cloud flare. Other things that cloud flare has a, an S3 compatible container. So you can deploy an S3 compatible container and they, that service is called R2. So anyway, yeah, they have a whole bunch of really cool services within cloud flare. And yeah, it's, well, this week reach out to cloud flare. See if they become a sponsor. Yeah. They're going to go, why are you already pitched this? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, but here's a question for you. So the way you describe it, not to beat a dead horse, but with the DPI, D-packed inspection packet comes in. It looks at it and determines whether you're going to, but what I understood is that a lot of these scraping people are going through AWS Azure and GCP to, to disguise themselves to come in because they can't tell. But with the patting inspection, you're still going to see the content. It doesn't matter what the, who's, whether it's coming from, you're saying who the source might be. The source is. So some, some in the, an Russian Federation coming in. It's, first of all, those guys, if they do anything, they use a VPN almost exclusively, just like guys in North Korea do. They figure out how to get it in there, get systems set up that they can access through VPN solutions so that the source of their data, because. Not the content. So that's my question to this. Cloud Fair, do the go by the source of does it look at the, does it look at the actual payload? It looks at the, it's not the payload. It looks at the function. So, although you can do special WAF functions that look at payload, but that's not, the normal way. That's a very esoteric, additional capability that you could put into a worker. So VPNs are going through AWS or any of the clouds could fool Cloud Fair. No, no. Cloud Flare doesn't care who the source address is. It cares. So let me explain. When you say content, let me be clear, the content contains. Function calls, syntax function calls. So when you send over an HTTP get, it comes back with a 200 response. So it's the natural data. And so you call it. So payload is different. Payload is the graphic that's in there or the words that are on your website. That's content. It's still part of the header, but the protocol site of it where you send a packet in, it's got an HTTP header that has an HTTP get. And so Cloud Flare is going to look at all those gets and it's going to discriminate and say, oh, this guy is doing a get and he has this special function of the get. We don't want to allow that because and then they also do know who the AI bots are, right? They have them all categorized. So they know who the AI bots are by IP address. So they do know a lot of that sort of stuff. As a matter of fact, interestingly, anything that goes through Cloud Flare has G O I P provided as well. So when you go to a Cloud Flare address, it knows where your IP address came from. That clears it up down to the city, but it doesn't by nature say, oh, this says nuclear in it. So we don't let it through. You can do that, but that is not the normal function. It's, this is a certain type of a function call or syntax that it that Cloud Flare can identify as a certain type of command or request or syntax. And that is not what we call content content. Would be the word nuclear inside the data of the call of the get and they're just looking at the headers. They're just, yeah, they are looking at the headers inside the protocols. And then they're saying, and then they look at who the source address is and they say, this game from the Russian Federation in a right away, I've turned off all Russian Federation addresses. So if they're stupid enough to use a Russian Federation address, which the real hackers aren't the real hackers don't come in saying, I'm a Russian Federation guy. They don't, they don't say that. And so now some do. And so we just, you know, literally get rid of those. They're gone. We won't even let those. I don't let a lot of websites in a lot of different countries. There's, so you can go to Cloud Flare and you can say, suppress all known high vulnerability countries. Boom done. And then if one of those countries you get some contract with, you say, oh, except for this one. So you can go modify all these different things, but Cloud Flare is massively powerful. I'm a huge advocate. And I think you should put 100% of your portfolio in Cloud Flare. Perfect. Guys today's fun. I'm kind of like thinking these are all great things. They all have good upsides. We, I guess we pointed out a couple of bad downsides, but not, not really bad. They're really more. I've got a dirty bounce here and there. Yeah. It was like, how can we develop systems to protect these technologies? That's, we brought that up a little bit. So that's good. Yeah. I think, I think we can all agree that being able to have better ways to clean up the internet. What's going on with four? What was it for her and 16 billion trapped? AI bot requests. Yeah. Yeah. That's a lot. That's traffic we can do without. That's cool. Yeah. I think the issue is just about who's in charge. If that's always a problem, we, every week we talk about it, we always end up with the same thing. Who's making the decision? Who says what gets through what doesn't get through? Who says where we're going to place these nuclear reactors? Who says how we're going to protect them? Who's looking out for the planet? Best of us. These are all great technologies. We all say, hey, good. This is a great solution to a power problem, great solution to clean up the internet, but who is making the decision? And are those guys smart enough to do it on our behalf? So that's why you come to the Morpheus Cyber Podcast because we're going to tell you 40 years worth of experience in each one of us with one aspect or another, either business or stocks or infrastructure or security and all an AI and all these different things. We're going to tell you, so we are watching as all these technologies start converging, right? So what's the idea of convergence? Tesla has a car. They have AI. So those are two convergence and then they have a robot. So there's three of them right there converging. So why did we pick these topics? Because we are watching and we need to keep our ear to the rail, understanding what's happening in all these areas as these technologies start to converge. And things are happening so quickly with AI that we need to be up to speed on the material benefits of various technologies, various things. And this is the place where we spend not only a full career behind building the knowledge that we have, but also every week we are studying for a dozen hours on these topics that we bring to you. And so we hope that you enjoy it. Let us know. And pretty soon coming in the new year, we will have a monthly Zoom meeting that will be public. And so certain ones of you can request to be on that and then you can ask Jim, Bill and Gus, the embarrassing questions that you've always wanted to answer or ask. Now we're not going to publicize those. Only the people on them will be in it. But we will answer the most embarrassing questions that you can ask. So we'll be doing that in the new year. Anyway, thanks everybody. Thanks, Jim. Hey, thanks for joining in. Thank you. Thank you.